Perfect donuts...

[nickie1105]

Morning all! Crikey, can't believe the time! I finally switched to bulk propane this week and boy am I overjoyed with the result! No more  dreading the moment when the torch cuts out just at the defining moment lol! It was my birthday yesterday (19th) so I had the perfect excuse to spend all day on my torch- almost 12 hours lol!  Anyhow, as improvement follows improvement, the perfect donut shape still eludes me so I wondered how you forum experts manage it? Is this just down to experience and practice or do you use some kind of mould for this? I came across a marble marver in the shape of a donut the other day but these look like they're made for Pandora type beads? I'd really appreciate any help you may be able to offer me. 

[chipperpottery]

PPP AND MORE PRACTICING. 

[marijane]

I still get the odd reject beads that have gone pear shaped. I think heat control is key, and a change of setup may mean you have to make adjustments. Make a small footrint and then add layers of wraps for the shape you want. It is hard to recover beads that have gone off centre, I'm interested to learn what other people do.  You can get beadrollers for thinner mandrels too.

[MangoBeads]

Its sO important to get your first footprint even - push the glass onto he mandrel toward you as you touch down and then pull towards you as it flows - when shaping allow the glass to move dont be tempted to twizzle fast as the glass has no time to flow anywhere before you are telling it to go back the other way !!!!
This is a common problem with shaping - it really is PPP and try to understand what you are asking the glass to do and that will take you along way -

Good luck 19 and all those glass years ahead of you - not jealous !!!

Happy birthday and good luck xx

[nickie1105]

Thanks so much for your replies everyone, I really appreciate it. I've just taken yesterday's work out of the slow cooker and to my complete shock and surprise there's a perfect donut among them! The rest are all off centre but I remember examining the last one I made really really hard, particularly as it's encased. I find it much easier to let the bead cool in the outer flame so I can see where glass needs adding and then bring it back into the hotter part to distribute the glass evenly and repeat until I have the size I want. Sometimes I think I have a perfect shape but when I take it off the mandrel after cooling, the bead is lop sided so it's very much trial and error since I have to wait until the next day to see where I'm going wrong. I guess it comes with practice- maybe my perfect one was a fluke, I'll have another go this afternoon when the dreaded housework is out of the way and I'll let you know how I get on and thanks again for taking the time to reply! Oh and @mangobeads...I sooooooooo wish I was 19 lol! I was referring to the date and unfortunately not my age in years  . Those days are long gone lol, I was 38 yesterday so maybe not that many glass years ahead of me afterall lol!

[tinker]

Nickie when I first started I had some excellent advice which was to just practice!  I mean, just plain beads. Heat and turn, overheat and learn to control the toffee on a stick etc and just no fancy stuff. To check the shape, make sure the bead is a bit cool and the glass isnt moving anymore, and turn the mandrel to face you at the pointy end. You will also  get to detect that when the bead isnt completely round, when you turn the mandrel you can see the bead sort of go up and down.
Hope that helps a bit.

[nickie1105]

Aw thanks Tinker, the more tips the better and your reply kinda reminds me of my contact lens days of all things. If you put them in inside out...well let's just say you know about it and the optician tried and tried and tried to get me to see that the right way was bowl shaped and the when it was inside out, it was a bowl with a lip. Could I hell see it...took me about 3 years before I could see it right off the bat lol! I guess that's the kind of thing I'm looking for in the donuts and I guess I'll just persevere with the practice and trust that the eurika moment will arrive someday lol! for now though it's back to the housework so I can finally get on my torch later on for a couple of hours! Absolutely loving this...why oh why didn't I do this years ago lol! Thanks again! x

[cbeadies]

I know that Laura Sparling does a tutorial on this subject which may be helpful
http://www.beadsbylaura.co.uk/BBLDownloads.htm

Or for free info it may be worth looking on youtube, there are lots of lampworking videos on there.

But I guess it comes down to practise!  It did take me quite a while to get consistently round beads but you will get there in the end!

[Lynnybobs]

As everyone else has said already getting a good footprint on the initial glass placement is definately key to getting a good shape without too much trouble.

What I would add is to practise making plain donuts with different colours as some colours go gloopy more quickly than others, opaques handle differently to transparents - that way you'll start to get a feel for how to adapt what you do to suit each colour and you'll have a lovely stash of spacer beads !

[Yellow friend]

When I started out - there were a couple of things that people said that stick in my mind. Make sure you keep the mandrel horizontal, when the glass is molten take it out of the flame but keep it turning steadily.  Look at the top edge in the flame as you rotate and see if it goes up and down, look down the mandrel as it's pointed at you and you can usually see where it's out.  Also you can feel it when turning if it's lopsided, especially larger beads.  If you get one that's being difficult - add a bit more glass and marver it, heat it till it's nearly dripping and take it out of the flame and keep rotating until the glow goes. - Experiment with the ones that don't do what you want initially - it's a good way to learn and you may get some surprises.

Shelia

[mel]

I would say to avoid using all moulds and shapers and marvers when starting out as it is so important to understand how the glass (and different glasses) moves in response to heat and gravity. Then, when centering doughnuts is second nature, move to using presses etc.   Jim Smircich (who was my first bead hero) advocates starting off by laying down a very small footprint and building up a disc, after this heat the edge of the disc only whilst rotating and holding the mandrel horizontally and it will gently collapse in on itself to make a good fat tyre or doughnut shape with nicely dimpled ends. This method works although once you have mastered it you will likely move to a faster method but it's a good learning exercise.

[nickie1105]

I've just had a thought...could it be that I'm trying to make them too big? They seem to form perfectly but the more glass I add, the more they distort or shouldn't it matter how big they are? Ooooo, and great tip Mel about only heating the edge, I'm going to give that a go later on and see what happens. I find it really hard to keep the bead horizontal too- will defo have to try to master that technique as I've read that somewhere before too. I've been mostly playing with opaques too and didn't realise that the transparents would behave differently. I'll be givng that a go later too. Thanks gals, you've been a brilliant source to me- whatever would i have done without you kind souls guiding me lol! 

[Kalorlo]

If they're bigger and you add glass unevenly, it'll take more effort to get them round again (more glass to move!). When you add more glass, is the bead so hot that you're dragging it out of shape? If that's happening, let the base cool a bit before adding more glass - rod in the flame, bead just under it. Then melt in the new glass and it should stay more evenly shaped.

[nickie1105]

It's defo cool Kalorlo, I figured that bit out quite early on after screwing up many a bead by gragging molten glass all over the show lol! Didn't realise that the bead needed to be just under the flame though, I've been letting it cool in the outer flame although I guess it'd be easier to keep the bead horizontal whilst heating the rod if I did it your way...I'm about to do some testing and will let you know I get on over the next few days...

[mel]

Horizontal mandrel-to help with this I filed off a corner of my graphite marver and drilled a wee shallow hole/divet so that when I twirled, the other end of the mandrel is supported. This makes controlled twirling much easier and relieves a bit of head space so that you can become more conscious of things like where the bead is in relation to the flame, how hot the glass is and horizontallyness. It's a bit like learning to ride a bike at first with hand to eye co ordination overload, panicy staring eyes, cessation of breathing, clenched bum cheeks and the inability to communicate except with gutteral grunting sounds...or maybe that's just me